340 Patrick Keller - Reflecting on Ten Years of Paranormal Podcasting Adventures

:: 00:00

Patrick Keller. We are recording round three on podcast.

:: 00:04

Okay, Yay, how are you? I'm so excited.

:: 00:10

I was looking at the last squad cast recording session and it was 2019. And I was like, wow, that was a long time ago. But then I'm going to think back to our first recording session, which was 2014 or 15, probably, it's just, do you?

:: 00:26

remember what we used then.

:: 00:28

We used Skype with Ecamp call recorder, if I'm not mistaken.

:: 00:34

Which is probably how I did my show then too.

:: 00:36

Yeah, because I was keen on having video from day one. So I need some ideas for the 10 year anniversary of the show, which is in April. It's creeping up and I'm like I can't just let it go by. I'm also trying to see if I can convince charity easily to let me speak at podcast movements on stage about my 10 year journey.

:: 00:57

So that would be cool. Here I have a story for you that you can use there.

:: 01:02

Please do, please share.

:: 01:03

And for audience members, and I'm sure we shared it on one of my episodes with you. Yeah, but I was a hardcore podcast junkies listener back in 2014 time Before it was cool, you know we started?

ah, but we were pre serial in: 2014

I forget who your guest was. I don't know if you remember, but I'm listening and the interviews going on and Harry goes oh, hang on, I got a delivery, I got to go to my front door, and so you hear him walk away and go down and get the delivery and Harry's guest gets a phone call, a full on phone call, and has a phone conversation. Hey, what's going on? Yeah, I'm doing this interview, yeah. And then all of a sudden, harry comes back. Hey, sorry, sorry about that. And he's like oh, it's okay, I had a phone conversation and, okay, I'll just edit that out. And I'm listening to it and I'm like, nope, definitely did not edit that out. So I'm messaging Harry is like a giant fan going Harry, hurry and edit this.

:: 02:48

Yeah, back then I was doing, and sometimes I wouldn't get it all done in one shot and so I would do a section and then I just come back or something like that. Thankfully now it's not on my plate. My team does it for me, so it's hard for me to mess it up, but I typically these go out almost as one take now, unless there's something like crazy that happens. But I love telling us. That story has been told several times on this show, because I also am keen to remind clients that we work with students that I coach, and even when I talk about it on the show. That's the beauty of this show Like to keep it real and to remind people that podcasting, although it looks perfect, and with some of these crazy tools like Descript and, you know, even easy podcast editing tools like Hindenburg, we can all create really nice, like world class productions and you've got the super fancy sound, what is called sound baffle, baffle Is that a baffle? Behind you, the sound proofing. Sound bed, sound bed. Oh, you mean this?

:: 03:46

stuff.

:: 03:47

Yes, yeah.

:: 03:50

Sound proofing, I guess, is what I would just call it yeah.

:: 03:53

So I think I'm going to do for a remodel of this office. At some points I may turn the desk so that I'm facing the light, because I sort of inherited the space temporarily and then it's exciting. I think we are going to stay here a little bit longer. So I've got some ideas and I think putting up some panels would be fun.

:: 04:09

Well, it's amazing, with you have that beautiful wood panel.

:: 04:12

Yeah, back there.

:: 04:13

It's amazing You're not super echoey right now. Well, the wood warms it up.

:: 04:18

The wood definitely because it's you know you think about other rooms are just hard surfaces and glass, which is the worst. But I think you know overall it's we're house sitting and this is my partner's dad's old man cave, so I'm actually staring at it like he's got a couch, got a TV, he's got a little plug-in faux stove stove, fireplace which we turn on to because we are in Minnesota. So it gets a nice vibe here. I mean I could create a podcast studio if I wanted to and see if anyone wanted to drive out to Excelsior Minnesota to have a podcast interview with me. It's not at that point I'm not that big I can fly people in, but yeah it's. I think I do get some natural sound in here. So it's been. So that whole idea of just like being natural and being genuine, that's what I love about the show.

And that obviously was the extreme case, because real is one thing, but real like, literally like hearing toilets flush and stuff, like that's probably a bit too much but that was some reality show style editing, yeah, and the reality show style editing is funny because it's always they edit it for the reactionary moment, for the extreme moment, for the moment that'll get, and then they probably piece together stuff out of order, right. So every time I watch I don't anymore. But when I did watch some of those shows, some of like you can just tell it's very manipulated and that's something you know. That's sort of like the beauty of these conversations, because as they continue and as they sort of meander, I think they just go where they go. And I've been enjoying Rick Rubin's such a Grammaton I don't know if you've heard it.

Rick Rubin he's like famous producer. He produced like the Beastie Boys and a whole bunch of bands and stuff like that. So he's like world class producer and he's been like around since the early days of like hip hop and he's produced like Neil Diamond and Metallica or Slayer. So he's got a range of artists Adele he's worked with and he's created a. He wrote a new book recently called the Creative Way or something like that, and he's does like these three hour interviews, you know, kind of Joe Rogan style, but they're just so mellow, like he just had a, had Norton on and they were just talking and it was just nice to hear I actually am slowing down the podcast. Normally I just like buzz through them, but I'm doing like 1.2 now. I used to do 1.5 and two, but there's something about these conversations that feel like they need to like sit with you for a bit and then you need to like enjoy them at the pace they're recorded.

:: 06:48

It's funny because I slow down or speed up my listening depending on what I'm listening to. Some podcasts are more conducive to speeding up because of the style they do, but if, like you said, if it's something that you're really in the feels or you feel like, sometimes I feel like a podcast the host is intending for me to slow down and get the juiciness and experience the silences and all of that. And I can sometimes feel that and so I will slow it down because I don't want to just listen and, you know, not get the benefit of whatever I'm supposed to get from that. But I also am a speeded up junkie on a lot of podcasts.

:: 07:39

I think it's to your point, if it's something that you are learning, or if it's like a marketing or business show, or I'm just trying to get to the salient points and saying, is there something here that I should be listening to? But if it's just a conversation and if you're in that mood where either you can either have it on the car or but if you're probably better if you're just sitting on the sofa somewhere and just like, sometimes even just close your eyes. I think at one point he had Richard Rudd, who wrote a book called the Gene Keys, which it's like a whole thing based on like human design and the each thing, and it's a fascinating, fascinating book I read years ago. But he's into like tea. So they had a like a tea ceremony, so they spent like half hour, 45 minutes and the way it works is like you drink these seven cups of tea and you can hear them sipping the tea because the quality of the mics is good, but it's just listening to two guys drink tea, which is like amazing and it's really cool.

:: 08:35

My audience would totally love that, because we pour tea for every episode of our show. In quotes we pour tea, and so what does that mean?

:: 08:46

when you say you pour tea.

:: 08:48

I am really kind of proud of my intro and outro of my show and from the beginning I don't know really if I started all of this from the beginning, I'd have to go back and listen but pretty early on I wanted to create a space, an imaginary space, for my listeners to listen to my show. My show is about the paranormal, but the show is the Big Seance podcast. So I want to create a. I want you to imagine you're in a seance parlor from the days of psychics and mediums and spiritualism and not every conversation is really about that, but it's around that. But I want people to imagine that the candles are lit and that there's a. It's like a movie scene that you picture in your mind, and sometimes I really do have a candle opera next to me, depending on if I'm doing something on video and I really try to create that space. And so we light the candles. In the intro you're walking up to my Victorian home and you can hear the leaves rustling and the crowing in the background and the wind and you. The door opens and welcome, we're lighting the candles and then at the end it's time to blow the candles out. Oh, we pour the tea in the middle there too, and then we blow the candles out and then you leave my house and it's the opposite and thanks for coming, and though you're back to walking in some creepy woods.

And I learned my lesson a couple of years ago because I was just sitting here trying to figure out, just doing some planning for the show, and I realized that I needed to clean up my space. This space was getting kind of junky and I'm not a super junky person and I'm like I need it to be a good place in here and clean. So I'm sitting on the other side in a lazy boy that I have on the other side and I'm just. I said I'm gonna take a picture of the space. I've never really shown my listeners my space. So in my Facebook group of listeners and fans I just shared behind the scenes BTS of the parlor, which we call listeners come into the parlor and I posted it in that group and I got so much flack. They were so angry because they were like oh my God, it's been ruined for me for life and I can never like as if I'm sitting here in this old Victorian parlor with candles and antiques and I was like I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.

:: 11:34

It's that theater of the mind where, when done well then you can paint that picture. And I think that's the beauty sometimes of like when you read a great book, because the whole set is in your head and everyone who reads a book is gonna get a different, even characters that I mentioned. You're like your picture in them, what they look like. And I've read books sometimes that I'm halfway through and then I'll be like in bed and I'm like I think about something that happened and I'm like, oh wait, that didn't happen in real life, that happened in the book, because it's you create this vision so much. But I think it's important to do that, and especially because as you start to publish, you get into the dozens and hundreds of episodes. People are coming into your space, people are coming into your world and they're getting a taste of what it's like to be with you.

And I think, as a podcaster I don't know if you've experienced this as well you tend to be more comfortable in your own skin later on, like in the beginning, like I've said it so many times, I had my questions, I six or seven questions, my cheesy speed round and all the stuff that you learn in the beginning, and then I just realized I just like talking to people and I just like conversations and I feel like conversations are making a comeback.

I don't know if that's true, if they've always been there, but I just, you know, when I hear podcasts like that and Joe Rogan has been helpful for like the long form conversations, regardless of what you think of like some of his content, but just the fact that is coming back and that's being appreciated it's interesting to think about experimenting with having the luxury to do a multi hour podcast. Must be pretty crazy, but I appreciate it and I think, as the show moves into like its 10th year, I have to just welcome that and just think about more ways to how can I have more conversations with people I enjoy speaking with.

:: 13:21

I appreciate that and I also in my show, have relaxed a lot more, I guess, over the 10 years. I do think there was a benefit of being a teacher when I started, because a lot of new podcasters, if I'm, you know, every now and then I'll help somebody get out of the gate and I'll help them with some of the ropes and show them and give them some ideas. And they're so worried about hearing their voice and recording their voice and I'm like I don't think many teachers have that issue, because we hear our voices in our head all the time and it's annoying and we've gotten over it and the kids have gotten over it and you just, it's a constant, you just hear it all the time, and so that was good for me off the bat. I was used to hearing my voice. It didn't really bother me too much.

However, I am the opposite of you with just releasing a show with very little editing, because I am a heavy editor. I still I always tell my guests I don't allow myself to sound like a dork and I won't let you sound like a dork either. So I always have that agreement that we will edit any possible stutter or so I am a super heavy editor and I've tried pulling back over the years and I, as I learn new techniques and learn to do things better, I dig back in and get more, even more deep, and I'm like, oh god, I'm trying to pull back, but I can't.

:: 14:46

So I think it's just been present in the moment as well.

I notice and this is I don't know where I picked up this habit, but I always have my finger on the mute button. So if you ever see that, go on, it's me clearing my throat, it's me coughing, and I try to instill that in students and clients as well. Just to say, hey, just, it makes it things easier for the editor if you do that, and obviously with tools like Squadcast you can get multiple tracks so each one gets its own track, so it's not a big deal in the other process. But have you ever thought about trying a light edit that's more relaxed and just kind of having that publisher regular one, and then just have like a bonus episode that you put like on, maybe like on YouTube or something, or just like a place that it's not your regular feed, or maybe just a private episode?

I think you can do a private episode or something like that, but you'd be curious, like it for your audience to see if the super fans would do it, say, hey, this is one that's really just almost as is, and it's happening in the moment and there's a couple of like flubs here and there and a couple of mistakes, but I think sometimes it's a couple reminder to people in the beginning to understand. You know, we're all this idea of taking in perfect action I talk about this a lot as well like just move forward. I think the universe loves momentum. So you know, when we try to make it perfect we end up like slowing ourselves down.

:: 16:05

I get that too. I do go live occasionally and those are up there on YouTube forever and then I clean it up for an audio episode. But that's a good idea because I have Patreon members for the show but also like and of course, now that I know how you're going to edit this episode, the audience is going to know that sometimes I am not super eloquent and have a lot of likes and I say like 57, you know, in every episode and a lot of stuttering type things, and so if any of my listeners are listening to this show, they're probably like who the hell is this person?

:: 16:49

Well you can share. I'd love for you to share with them because I'm hopefully making this as much of a relaxing environment for you to. I've used this phrase for the past year and a half just get hosts kick back their heels, relax and just kind of. The whole point of the show is just the inspiration was inside the actor studio because I was always fascinated by. I'm like, oh, the actor. They just he looks like a normal, like chill person, like that's so cool. That was always the intention. Look at the show. So, for the benefit of new listeners, new viewers who don't know a lot about your show, I'd love to do a little flashback in time. I know 10 years is a long time to cover, but there's a lot has happened with the show. But can you just sort of just tell the story of how you started the show and a couple of like peaks and valleys maybe, and then you know we can kind of dig in a little bit there.

:: 17:35

and to present day, Sure, speed me up if you need to. I started the show the big say on podcast after having a couple of years of being a paranormal investigator, and before that actually that was kind of that came first. After being a paranormal investigator for a couple of years, I was having what I've always referred to as a spiritual shift. I grew up in a Southern Baptist kind of environment and grew up gay and had a lot.

I've been running away from the church forever and right from college on and all of a sudden was inspired by a book and a TV show and a couple other podcasts, a couple other things kind of came in. And then all of a sudden I became this person who had never really read, ever for pleasure, and was reading a book a week or more on spiritual or spiritual topics suddenly lost my fear of death and dying and dogma. All of a sudden I disconnected from a lot of the dogma that I grew up with. And so then the paranormal investigation and I started the blog, which was the big say on, just to have a place to, because you know, my husband partner at the time was not really into that stuff. He was very supportive but not into it.

And then, being in a kind of small town environment conservative area, there weren't a lot of people to have discussions about these things, and so I needed a place to talk about it. And so then the couple of years later, the blog became the podcast and I'm fascinated by psychics and mediums. That's really kind of where a lot of that fascination started. So I do have a lot of psychics and mediums on, but also paranormal investigation topics, spiritual topics. I don't get to woo woo, but we sometimes get woo woo and it's just. I think of it as an ongoing conversation, like imagining you're in a seance parlor, and sometimes we have an interview. That is not so much those topics, but it's around there, right? How did your?

:: 19:59

relationship to things, spiritual change over the years, because I like telling people, like at this point I tell people you can't out, woo me, because I've been down all the rabbit holes and I go pretty deep on like a bunch of stuff like lightworkers channeling mediums, like tarot astrology, like ancient Egyptian civilizations, so like, yeah, I'm going down all those rabbit holes, but did you feel a shift for you and this is sort of a multi part question, because I'm thinking about you mentioned, like maybe this fear of death that you have, which led you to look into these things and have you learned more about like what's quote unquote out there in terms of like or aspects of spirituality that you maybe weren't looking for when you started, but then you sort of opened up as you started to have more and more of these conversations.

:: 20:49

Sure, I can tell you something that hasn't changed. What hasn't changed is I am as close to 100% confident in knowing that there is life after death and there's something on the other side, and what that looks like and what that is fascinates me. There's whole episodes of just me bugging people about no really, what do you think life's like on the other side?

and what's going to happen and what it is. So that has not changed. What has changed in the kind of our physical world here mediumship, paranormal investigation, a lot of the woo stuff I've gotten more skeptic about. A lot of people pedal things and you have to look into it, right, especially in there's some scary conspiracy theories out there, and why that gets wrapped up into the paranormal world, I don't know, but that always kind of concerns me. But then also as a, I would consider myself. You know it's, there's this paranormal side of things and a spiritual side of things. They don't always meet in the middle, but they're kind of in the same family. On the spiritual side we have to be careful because there's a lot of cult-like things that people get sucked into on the spiritual side. That has always concerned me for my audience, right. So I'm always prescaining what I have on my show because I do not want to introduce something that could be a danger to someone.

:: 22:33

Yeah, some like, some like negative energy or something like that.

:: 22:36

Yeah, well, like this whole conspirituality idea.

:: 22:41

What's that? How do you define that?

:: 22:43

Well, there's a podcast in the book called Conspiratuality that I've read and is really awesome and I wish they would come on my show because I've contacted them like 11 times. I really would like to have them on my show. But you know just a lot of they go down the road of I'm not thinking of the correct term, but you know a lot of anti-vax stuff and a lot of cults and yoga. A lot of the scary yoga stuff, cults and I can't think of any names.

:: 23:12

Yeah, just like darker rabbit holes, if you will.

:: 23:15

So yeah, and so I'm reading that book going. Every time I turn the page I'm like gritting my teeth going. Oh my God, am I going to read about somebody that's been on my show?

:: 23:24

Oh, my God. But I think it's helpful because the other aspect of that with everything that's happened and people are wakened to post COVID is this idea of labeling, separating, calling people out, quote unquote, canceling, not saying the right word, not being allowed to say words. We used to say like all this stuff is coming together and I think what's important is this idea of discernment and also, you know, figuring out what resonates with you, and a lot of this in spirituality we talk a lot about. Take what resonates and discard the rest, so you could read something about something spiritual and be like I don't believe 90% of this, but that 10% in there, that's really. I could apply that in my life. So that's really helpful.

But it's also this idea of being able to hear someone's opinion on something, disagree with it without being disagreeable and just learn to like.

We're not all going to like the same stuff, agree on the same stuff, vote for the same person, care about the same stuff in life, you know, and I think that's OK.

You know, and I think for a long time it's just like we're looking for places where we can point to people and say oh, you said that one thing.

I hate you now, like you know, and obviously I mentioned Joe Rogan because he like says one thing and the people like latch onto that, but I'm like I've heard some amazing conversations on that show which really have changed my perspective on life, and I'm just like I give him credit for that.

So it's this idea of like everyone has value, like I could learn something from anyone, even people that are, on the face of it, I probably disagree strongly with, and I think opening ourselves up to be more patient and more open to understanding, like we don't have to like agree on everything everyone says, and I think if we could just move into that space, we could just be more amenable to each other, and I think conversations like this help us open up, even, you know, to the point of maybe having people on the show where it could be a topic that you're not familiar with, that you disagree with, or that you're maybe even against, and just I think it's a helpful skill to learn how to be able to manage those, because sometimes you know, if you're not ready, some of these conversations can be very triggering.

:: 25:33

I will tell you, harry, I am getting better at that, yeah, however, I struggle. I struggle with Sir Rogan and a little bit, and I struggle when it comes to bigotry, racism, hate, and so I've spent a long time and, as an educator to, I've spun a lot of wheels trying to introduce people to. Well, here's maybe what you don't understand. Let me try to explain it to you. And I can say there have been some minds that I have changed, I feel, or at least changed a little, but most of the time you know they don't change, but I do. I have a hard time with that and I hopefully can grow. At the same time, I kind of don't know if I want to grow like if a lot of these racist, bigoted attitudes I've learned. I guess I'm trying to learn to just peace out and not even go there, but I struggled with that. I think I'm getting better, but there's that side of things too.

:: 26:43

So talk a little bit about your podcast journey, because we chatted a week or so ago and you're talking about how you have to put the show on hold. So this is relevant for anyone who's considering podcasting, who is podcasting, who's been podcasting, like you and I have been. You're closing in on the 10 year mark. It's a grind and if you do the math on my episodes, I'm a 330 ish. So over 10 years, you can tell that I haven't been consistent with a weekly podcast. So there's that, but I'm curious what that journey has been like for you. You were consistent for a while and talk a little bit about your mindset. You know what you're going through internally in terms of making those decisions.

:: 27:21

So for the biggest part of the life of my podcast it's been in every other week show. When I first started, for I don't know several months, I was a weekly show and trying to do that and teaching at the same time and being a paranormal investigator nerd, you know, behind the scenes. That was a lot.

:: 27:42

Right yeah.

:: 27:43

And so most of the time it's been in every other week thing. And podcasting is a passion of mine and I love following it most for a while. Most of the podcasts I listen to, where podcasts about podcasting, which you know makes people outside of this base giggle.

:: 28:00

Yeah.

:: 28:00

But no, it's hard to be a full time public school teacher, especially COVID on was really rough in the education space and I think in some areas of the country it was rougher and you know we were thrown into the wolves for a while and masking and having 700 kids in a building and the effects of on our kids of the political environment and the divide and just the things got off the chain a little bit. And mental health was for a lot of teachers, and I mean a lot of teachers have been leaving the field and deciding that you know mental health is a big concern. So the last school year I discovered that I had the ability to purchase some years. I know not everybody can do this, but I was encouraged from the very beginning of my teacher career to start a 403 B which, at least in my state, is like a 401k for like public workers, state workers, things like that, and so I had been doing that and my first well, I guess I'll cut it short I bought several years using that to get to retirement.

So it is a little odd that a I'm going on 46, but a 45 year old retired person it's a little weird. However, there's a lot of things I miss about education. There's a lot of things I miss about my kids. However, when you get out of it, it's been such an adjustment Like I've had to purge some things I've realized how toxic my environment was a lot for years, right yeah. And when you all of a sudden get on the other side of that and some space goes by, oh my gosh. So it's been a really cool change, but it was an adjustment. Anyway, I'll backtrack a little bit because In planning my retirement just planning my retirement in the last school year, planning for your retirement stresses, stresses you out almost as much as you know a full time job. So I told my audience and it was hard and I was kind of burned out too In a lot of ways. I put out a special episode and I said I don't know what this is. It's at least a pause. It might be a hiatus, I'm not sure. But you know, I'm not sure, I'm not sure. But stay tuned, right.

And so for like nine months I was on a hiatus while I figured it out, and then I got retired, purged everything, got off some mental health medication to try to figure out now that I don't have that stress, what's life like without that. I'm still trying to figure out if I'm liking that without it or if I need to go back. But after a couple of months I was like, okay, I'm ready to get this podcast back going again. And I came back and was weekly just like the first time. I was weekly for a little bit, yeah, and then I was like I kind of like that every other week thing.

But I did find and to all the podcasters out there who are talking about downloads, and it's funny, so many things changed in those nine months that I was gone. It's like I picked the worst time to be on hiatus because all the AI discussions and all I like so and this Apple podcast change thing and my downloads were hit, like they were hit. You know everybody always says don't ever just like stop because you know your audience will change a little bit and you're like well, part of it is the way apps work, I think sometimes see what they're doing and this is the Apple podcast related.

:: 31:59

But if you don't listen to downloaded episodes over, at some point, I think the some of these apps and I mean really just Apple, spotify, but I think Apple they may unsubscribe you to the show, right? Yeah, so they're trying to make sure that I do not explain it.

:: 32:14

But yeah, and it's hard to know exactly why, because also not just from my hate hiatus, but you know, also everybody in general is talking about lower downloads now, and so I mean I've learned, coming from a stats junkie to in the early days, where I would refresh every hour and have a fascination with that I'll go months without even looking, yeah. So I mean. I try to just ignore all of that stuff now and just do what I do and whatever is going to happen is going to happen.

:: 32:51

How would you describe your relationship to your podcast? Because it's interesting, like if I just stopped, I mean, naturally, like it's what we do. We have an agency, we produce shows, we do it for clients, I have a second show and, of all things, vertical farming. So I'm just wondering if there was, like a podcast switch and they turned it off, there'd be a big hole in I probably would. I mean, you know, obviously you get that question all time. What would you do if money was not an object? I'd probably be DJing, I think. To be quite honest, that was my first passion. It still is like house music and stuff. So I think about those things. But like all that, to come around and kind of rephrase the question, like what's the relationship to this podcast? It's 10 years, right, so it's a big part of your life and you know you did stop it for a while. But you know, do you think about that, like you know your audience and everything you've built up over the years.

:: 33:40

Well, the benefit of having that group of listeners you know on Facebook is that I can you know there it's a very nice community. We've had very few issues that a lot of groups have social media groups, and so there I feel like I can trust them and we have ongoing conversations all the time that are sometimes not 100% related to the show and I feel like having them kind of helped me there, and I don't always get feedback on a regular basis from my listeners, but I got a lot of feedback over those nine months of being gone.

:: 34:19

What did you do to keep the group engaged? Because obviously if it's around the podcast and you've got the Patreon group and people are paying you, that's obviously coming out of their account. I went on pause, okay.

:: 34:29

I went on pause and there was an honest discussion with the folks there too, and I actually got a lot of argument for that. A lot of people didn't want to be on pause. They were like don't pause me, this is what I, you know, and I'm like what? That's weird. I paused everybody, but yeah, I mean, there's a lot of discussion that happens in that group even without me, and so I just chime in on everybody else's stuff. But one thing that I did miss and this is weird, even like probably just as much as the discussions and, you know, the interviews and things was the behind the scenes editing and the producing of something. I really learned that I've always thought I was my jam, but I really missed that, and so that's why I kind of ended up jumping into this being a contract editor.

I've been doing some editing for some other people, and so I mean, I wasn't doing that during the nine months, but I missed that too. We're kind of jumping all over the place.

:: 35:36

That's fine. I mean, I think that's where your mind goes when you think about it, what I was going to ask Edit this out, harry, edit this out.

No, it's not going to get out of it. That's the beauty of it, I think. What's interesting I've been thinking about this, and this is related to age as well, because I'm 53. Am I 53? Yeah, at some point you start losing track and you're like, what is it? But I'm thankful that I'm probably not close to being in the best shape of my life, because there's some old school waits here and I've been working out three days a week and just taking care of myself and being conscious of staying in shape.

But you always think about the future, and I come back to this idea of all this digital stuff that we're creating, all these podcast episodes. You may be the best person to ask this and we're talking about what happens when we pass on. Do you think about all your stuff? Do you bequeath it? Do you just? It just goes off? I think about these phantom Facebook pages from profiles of people that have passed on and who monitors that? Do they go? Sometimes my mind wanders and I'm just like what happens? People just read, they see people's social accounts, or do they visit them? Is it just like a graveyard? Is everything about that stuff?

:: 36:53

Well, especially in the last couple of years, that everybody and this drives me crazy because it makes me want to stab my eyes out but all these content creators having to, or feeling like they have to, also have a TikTok and have an Instagram and go live on YouTube, and I think some of us just sorry, I'm not going to.

:: 37:15

I mean, I try a little bit, but I'm not going to be that content creator.

:: 37:18

You know, no matter how hard you tell me, but you think about all of those accounts from people and with AI also, AI grabbing what actor just had their voice?

:: 37:34

grabbed by some company. Yeah, the deep fake stuff is out of control.

:: 37:38

Yeah, when they use like a podcaster. That's an AI, you know heaven, because you can take anybody's podcast and learn their voice from thousands of hours of episodes, and so that kind of worries me. But I have had the conversation with my husband and I've told him, unless you're poor at that moment, you need to. You know there's the account that you can choose, at least through Libsyn, that where they'll just store your stuff.

:: 38:08

Yes.

:: 38:10

You're not adding anything to it, but it's just there and I'm like I want my shows to stay there. I would, at least Until people forget about me.

:: 38:19

Yeah, there's that phrase that people say, or someone's. There's some famous saying that says there's two deaths, that when you actually die, and then the last time someone mentioned your name.

:: 38:30

Dude. Do you know how many times I think about that? I've had grave adoptions. That's one of the cool things I did over the years of vlogging.

:: 38:38

Grave adoptions. What's that?

:: 38:39

I went to go and I did it for two or three years in a row in the fall. I went to various my favorite cemetery. I mean I love the big, huge garden cemeteries. You know the enormous ones with and you know they're just beautiful.

We have one in St Louis here, but then also just the forgotten cemeteries you know you drive by and you see a forgotten cemetery that's like hidden, and so I devoted myself to like two or three years in the row, finding like two grave sites at each cemetery that looked forgotten Like. I obviously didn't pick a newer grave that someone might be taking care of, or if I see a grave that already has flowers on it or something like that, Obviously they've got someone who is remembering them and whatever. But I pick an older gravestone and I did it just by kind of intuitiveness and just kind of went there, didn't look at the name anything.

And the first year was really special. I ended up picking in two separate cemeteries.

ho had died in like the early: 1800

Whenever I do an episode about some individual who played a role in spiritualism or whatever, I sometimes wonder. I'm like, do they know and do they appreciate us kind of pulling their name back up and is it something that affects them? On the other side, do they feel when people a hundred years later they didn't know, not connected to them?

:: 41:04

I love that. I'm also a fan of time travel. I'm just like obsessed with time travel and this idea of like a multi-dimensional realities and everything happening at the same time. Have you ever seen Interstellar? Oh yeah, like that Tesseract moment, or like at the end when he's in all the places at once and it's all it's happening at the same time.

:: 41:23

Like I, firmly believe like.

:: 41:24

I firmly believe like that's all happening. So it's time is not linear, because we think about it has to happen in this way. So I think about that stuff. I really feel has a resonance. And when you were saying that, I'm like, oh yeah, that for sure is putting something out into the ethers, that's like a positive thing because you know there's somewhere that energy signature of that person is happy that you do that. I think that's amazing. And so do you go specifically to older cemeteries, or is just your local one and you just browse and look for like older tombstones Typically?

:: 41:56

and I haven't done it for several years, right, but in the first I mean the three years that I did it. Yeah, I typically gravitate toward a smaller well, not necessarily smaller, because there are a lot of huge old cemeteries, but I try to find the oldest part of a cemetery, right. And you know, sometimes you'll find a grave that is knocked over or the headstone is missing. One of the graves that I look after was one of those where the headstone was completely missing. I had no clue who it was, but I went there weekly. I usually brought something every week.

Like I would go to the grocery store and get you know cheap flowers, or like I would go get a little pumpkin or something and I would drop something off at each grave, just to you know also, as people walk by, they might see that and be like, oh okay, somebody is thinking about that person or whatever. Sure, sure, but yeah, I always try to go to the ones that are obviously not tended to. If I was a cooler person and maybe you know better at like fixing graves, or there are people out there that go and repair graves or, you know, raise money to recreate a headstone that has been destroyed or damaged or whatever I'm not that cool, Like I didn't go and like fix things, but at least I was there, I brought gifts and I chatted and tried to bring their life story back a little bit.

:: 43:35

That sounds like something you could probably encourage people to do on the regular. And of course, there's a podcast where you're like, oh, this could be a podcast, but it could be a user generated content, so like people could do it, they could tell you, they could submit their stories and you could have like tomb stories.

Oh, that's a great idea, or just we could call it something different, but like, maybe we will blow it up so anyone's listening. You know either Patrick's audience or mine if you need a new podcast idea, but it could be something where everyone does it in their own neighborhoods and then they'll just submit. You know, I found this person and this is the latest, and it could be like resurrected memories or something like that. Of course, now I'm getting to like the marketing mode here, but I'm thinking about this. This is a beautiful idea because when you think about the families, it could have been a child that died and then the parents passed away and then there was no one else in the family and then that's it. There's no more memories of that person.

:: 44:25

One of the, I purchased some old this is another nerdy, super nerdy hobby collection of mine. I started collecting old yearbooks from my high school. Oh wow. This is a small town outside of Kansas City, missouri, that has a big history, you know. At one time it was one of the largest cities in Missouri, before Kansas City was a thing, and it's a river town and it's also a civil war battle town.

:: 44:57

Lots of energy there.

:: 44:58

Yeah.

high school and in the early: 1900

at they had yearbooks in like: 1910

:: 46:34

Different building. At that point Same right.

:: 46:37

And so there were so many connections and I even took that research and displayed it and shared it with my students of one year and we talked about her and I showed her pictures and showed her. I found an older picture and a younger picture and my kids were kind of fascinated and we talked about it a little bit and I'm sure it seemed weird to them but they were learning about my passions as well.

ut what school is like in the: 2020

:: 47:40

Yeah, yeah. Well, I really appreciate you sharing that because it sort of makes me feel better about this idea of like being lost forever when no one thinks about you anymore. But like these little things hopefully will encourage the listener and the viewer to maybe see where in their lives they could do that, and whether it's looking back at old yearbooks or looking back at photo albums and just putting a positive energy in that moment and just sending that person just like love or something like that, just something as simple as that, I think there's something to be said and I think that's a good thing.

:: 48:12

I know what. I left something out, because this is the part that I thought about when you before I told that story is. I went back and tried to find as many people as I could find in the town that I grew up in that would have memories Of having her as a teacher in the 60s and, believe it or not, there weren't a lot of people that I could find that even remember her. I know my grandma and grandpa were alive and went to that school. So did my parents. After that point my grandpa had died so I couldn't really ask him. My grandma didn't remember, but there were. I knew where she lived. I found her house. I had pictures of her house that's still there, a little gingerbread looking house. She lived there at a time when teachers, especially women teachers, were not allowed to be out of the house at a certain time or have gentlemen callers and there were so many dumb rules about women teachers. But anyway, I did find a couple of people. Some person said oh yeah, I used to have.

When I was a kid I had a newspaper route and she was always on my newspaper route and I remember I would see her sometimes at the door and she was an older woman at that time, but he remembered her and then someone else remembered her as a teacher that I talked to and said she was just very quiet, she was very, and that would have been when she was older. She didn't like stand out too much but she had a pen pal club that apparently the kids loved. They always had a, they loved having their pen pal club and so she did that above and beyond teaching. So that was interesting to discover, that there weren't a lot of people that remembered her and it's not like this was ancient history, it was just there are people alive that knew her. Yeah, yeah.

And already there weren't a lot of people that remembered her and that made me kind of sad.

:: 50:11

Yeah, it goes by quick when you think about, like, even just looking back at a hundred years, like how just memories disappear. So it's been an interesting thing to think about as you were telling that story, and I think everyone's going to appreciate and just take more solace in knowing that we should treasure the memories we have because sometimes, as we get older, we're the only ones holding onto them and we're the keepers of that lineage. We talk about ancient Native Americans, talk about seven generations. They think about the impact of stuff. Seven years, seven generations forward and back, but also a lot of in the past, everything was oral, historically transmitted, and you would tell the stories and tell the stories and tell the stories, and I think we've lost that, thankfully, through podcasting and archiving and I think we'll have a lot of that available. So I really appreciate you coming on and being open to just talk about whatever's coming up for us in this moment, because I think I was.

It's weird how it happens sometimes because I'm just like I come across your name or your profile on Facebook and I was just in that moment. I'm like I think we're just due for a catch up and so I want to thank you for coming on and sharing an hour again with me, and I enjoyed this format because, like I said, this was a podcast conference. We'd have a couple of minutes in like a hallway and be like hey, oh, we've got to catch up and like maybe talk, but there's nothing like slowing down here and introducing new people to you as well, cause there may be people who haven't heard the first couple of episodes. So I'm always grateful and I want to thank you just publicly again for being a super supporter of the show early on, when it was like you're wondering if anyone's listening. And then thank you for being on Well.

:: 51:40

I appreciate you because I was your first guest who was on as a listener.

:: 51:46

Like I would get on your show because of my show or anything I had done.

:: 51:51

I was on your show as a listener which was a really cool opportunity back then. Yeah.

:: 51:58

So for folks who want to connect with you and learn more about Big Seance and what else is going on in your world, what's the best way for them to connect with you?

:: 52:04

BigSeancecom is my website and something, but you want to send me an email. That's on there too, but patrickatbigseancecom, so that's it. I'm also on dude. Since retirement, I have been figuring out this Instagram stuff. I'm a true Gen X who is getting into Instagram now that everybody the cool kids are leaving. Instagram and going to TikTok, I finally found Instagram, so BigSeance is on Instagram and on Facebook as well.

:: 52:36

We'll make sure all those links are in the show notes as well. Thanks again for your time. I really appreciate it, my friend.

:: 52:40

You rock, thank you.