339 Michelle Glogovac - From Aviation to Podcasting: Embracing Change and the Power of Storytelling

:: 00:00

So, michelle Glogovac, host of my Simplified Life, thank you so much for joining me on Podcast Junkies.

:: 00:06

Thank you so much, Harry. I'm so excited to be here with you.

:: 00:09

So, for the benefit of the listener, do you want to share the story of how we cross paths?

:: 00:14

I believe that my teammate Allison pitched me to you. So she listened to your show first and then I, of course listened as well, because we do not go on to any podcast without listening to it before pitching, before coming on as a guest.

:: 00:31

How did you develop that discipline? Or was it just that you burned once by not having done it that way the first time?

:: 00:40

No, I just feel that it's the personalized way that you should be pitching to a podcast host in general, as a host, to get many pitches in which they don't even relate to me, they don't relate to the show, it's copy and paste.

And so we feel that the best way that you're going to find a fit for the client, for myself, is to actually listen to the show, read the description. You know they're simple things. It doesn't take much time, a little bit of effort, and then that way you can make sure everybody. It's going to be a win-win for everyone involved and the client. The guest can bring as much knowledge and education and inspiration to the audience as possible that way.

:: 01:20

I think the worst is when you get an invite and they get your name wrong or they have hey first name or something.

:: 01:29

That's truly the worst. Or they don't even include your first name and, like the name is in every listing that there is. If you go to Apple Podcasts and you found the podcast there, it says the host name right underneath. So laziness, that's what I chalk it up to.

:: 01:46

So I'd love for you to share a little bit of your background, specifically what you were doing pre-podcast life. I like how the few other names you go by on your website talks a little bit about the former aviation fuel guru, which peaked my interest a bit. So I'm just curious, as we lead up to all the podcasting stuff, how much of a if you could give a little bit of your background as well for the listener.

:: 02:10

Yeah. So at the age of five I thought I was going to be an attorney and I actually brought a briefcase to school because that was going to be my jam. And I chose a college to go to because it had a law major. And once I was at college, figured out that I needed a job fairly quickly to help fund my education. I was on the rowing team and that was a rec sport, so that cost money and I didn't have a car.

,: 2000

And when I was, when I graduated from college, they put me on salary, gave me benefits and I didn't need to move back home with my parents and I was like I'm good, I will just continue doing this. And I went from customer service to the bookkeeper of the base. I hated math but I love making money, so it kind of worked out that it was millions of dollars that I was counting and chasing people to. You know, make sure they pay us. And then I was recruited to some startups in the aviation world and then made my way to the largest reseller of jet fuel in the world and I worked for them as their youngest salesperson and I sold jet fuel to corporate flight departments for almost 20 years, all because I needed a part time job and didn't have a car.

:: 03:55

There's a lot to unpack there. What was the impetus for you to walk onto that? Was it just an airstrip or like I'm trying to visualize, like how you decide that's the place. You want to just randomly figure out if they're hiring?

:: 04:11

There was an ad and there was an ad in the paper and there was a bike path so you could walk down the bike path. There was a short stretch of road. It was all on the beach I went to use the Santa Barbara. So this was. The Santa Barbara airport is actually in Galita, literally on the beach. So that was I mean, I could walk to work, I could run to work, it was no big deal, and so that's what I did, and I stayed there for years.

:: 04:35

That's wild that you were able to just continue work your way up through there, through the ranks and that whole industry. I imagine there's like its own niche industry, obviously, like private jets and everything that happens. Do you have any stories that you can publicly share? I don't know how private people are when they fly this or what if they make the employee sign waivers or something because of privacy.

:: 04:58

We didn't back then. It's pretty funny, but this is when, you know, cell phones didn't have photos and, like I, carried a blackberry, so it wasn't the same as it is now where you can get the photos. The biggest incident we had I met a lot of celebrities, which was very cool, but the biggest one was when Michael Jackson flew in to have his arrangement.

And so we had this one man showed up and was very quiet and secretive and they were walking the perimeter and it was our hanger that they, when they landed the jet and they pulled it right into the hanger that was ours. So the phone calls came in nonstop of is he landing, what's he doing, where is he? And he'd been there before. I held the blanket, when blanket was a baby and transferred him from the limo into the plane. But the funny thing is funny, not funny. Somebody was recording on the plane.

So here they were concerned about security on the perimeter and us as employees. And it wasn't even us that ended up leaking out anything. So that was like the biggest scandal or you know memory that there was. But meeting celebrities, most of the people were very kind, very nice. Rob Lowe cracked me up and he'd use the women's restroom if he needed to, because he's like I got to get out of here. What can I do?

There were some that were just kind of jerks, and those are memorable ones that I'm like, I see him on TV and like no, I tell my kids and like that man thinks he's funny, he's not funny.

:: 06:25

He's pretty rude to regular people like me.

:: 06:28

But you know, it was a good time and I wondered, if you know, I saw these people 20 years later if they would be like. Oh yeah, I remember you. I haven't tested the theory yet.

:: 06:38

It's interesting when you get to meet people that you see on TV and you know. Obviously actors do a good job of portraying all these different characters, but it must feel good occasionally when you see someone who just seems as nice, or is as nice in person as they seem on screen. Maybe for most of them they are just acting, but it must be nice to know that there are some genuinely good people who haven't let the fame and fortune get to their head.

:: 07:02

Yeah, the two in particular stand out. One is Sean. Penn and he is very quiet, very shy, reserved, not at all what I expected. He helped with his luggage. The other one was actually Joe.

:: 07:15

Martinez from the 49ers.

:: 07:18

He refused to let me touch his luggage. He said, no, you go chat with my wife, jennifer, she's been on the plane, you shouldn't be touching the luggage, I'll handle that. I was like, okay, well, that's cool, I'll go chitchat with your wife while you do the heavy lifting. So those were the nicest ones. That really stood out and you know to see someone go, oh, so they do act, and that really up levels your image of them as an actor when they are nothing like what they portray in the character.

:: 07:45

That's so funny. Did you get to fly the jets as well?

:: 07:49

I fly in them On occasion on occasion, not anywhere, like really fun. I would do some of the maintenance flights.

So I would just take my life into my own hands of yeah, we switched the engine, do you want to go in a test run? Or we also worked with the helicopter that would go over the Channel Islands or to the oil rigs. So once in a while I'd get to fly on those, and if they had a photographer taking photos of whatever they needed to, then I'd hop on just for fun. So yeah, on occasion.

:: 08:18

It is nice. That was my next question. Yes, all it's cracked up to be, you know, because very comfy seats and a lot of leg room. Yes, so the other thing that I thought was interesting is that there's an industry for reselling jet fuel as well, and that was just a natural progression from your working with this company and working in the private jet industry.

:: 08:42

Yeah, so the reseller is buying large quantities of fuel and it was diesel. We did land, sea and air, and so they had a lot of purchasing power behind them and ultimately it was more like a bank, because they were extending credit to corporate flight departments and they were buying the fuel much cheaper than what they could be, buying it for on their own, marking it up really within pennies, anywhere from five cents to 50 cents a gallon and they were making hand over fist and it was a fortune 50 company.

So, yeah, there's definitely a business for it.

:: 09:19

So the company that was reselling the fuel, that's different than the company that was actually the jet company. Yeah, yeah.

:: 09:27

Yeah, they have since actually gotten into the FBO business and are branding those things like a Chevron. Would they now have their name on the? Building as well for their fuel. But when I started it was not. It was really like another paper transaction that you're doing. Yeah.

:: 09:45

I've seen the increase in like the equivalent of time share for private jets as well, because I see more and more people that are not like Uber, rich or super wealthy, but they have access to that because they're sharing that. Did you get to see a lot of that in your time there? I?

:: 09:58

Was working with jets and flight options back in the day and then you know, jet sweet X's now come on the scene, xo, jet, all of those ones. They were all clients. Yeah, back in the day, and it wasn't that long ago we're talking Six, seven years ago. So they had already started, but it wasn't quite yet catching on the way it is now that you can go to Burbank and just hop on the jet and you know Come to the area that wasn't quite yet the normal thing work, but you're still sharing a plane with strangers.

Yeah, so it's private, and yet it's not it's one step up.

:: 10:34

It's not as commercial, but it's still a little commercial. It's probably a little bit easier from a travel perspective because you don't have to deal with, like the main gate Hassles and you can just kind of like that there must be there's. That's the nice aspect of it. He's on through, and so I think it's all app based. Now too. I think you can have an app and like pull up time or schedule time as well.

:: 10:52

Yeah, there were no.

:: 10:55

Thanks for that, for sharing that, because I thought that was pretty fascinating. So talk to me about the transition and how we make our way from selling jet fuel to the world of podcasting.

:: 11:05

Yeah, totally different, so it seems, but I have made the connection over the years because it's a question that I continue getting asked. But I had. So I worked for the fortune 50 company. I was laid off because there was a lot of acquisitions and by then I'm like whatever, I had a child at home and I went to work for a competitor and they were then acquired, so I was one of the last ones in, so I was one of the first ones out, and by then I had a second child and I thought well, what is it that I can do where I'm not traveling like I am, because there were times where I was gone three weeks out of the month, and what can I do?

that, I feel like, makes a difference for my kids, because now, as a mom, I want to make the world a better place for them and all I was doing was saving the wealthy on their fuel so they could fly around some more. It didn't feel like it was fulfilling.

want to listen. And this was: 2018

And I just kept listening and I was promoting on my social media of I'm going to figure this out. I'm on this journey. I don't know what it is, but I'm listening to this woman and hopefully that'll lead me down the path of whatever I'm supposed to do. She reached out to me and she said so apparently you like what I'm putting out there. Do you want to pitch me to be on other podcasts? Because you get what my message is.

Wow, I had no idea and so I started pitching her, but in my fashion I'm like I need to know what goes into a podcast. How do we create them? What is it that are the best practices? So I took some courses, I started producing her show, I produced other shows and then I launched my own, because if everyone can say something, then so can I, and that was how it all started.

But I fell in love with the pitching part and so the way it relates to my 20 year jet fuel career was that they're both Relationship based and it wasn't that I had this love for jets or fuel, but I loved the people that I worked with. I loved knowing everyone in the flight department and when the anniversaries were and the birthdays were and what were your trouble points, and it was building those relationships that kept me going for almost 20 years. And that's really what podcasting is all about. It's the relationships and to be able to pitch a client. I want to be their number one fan. I want to believe in them, otherwise I can't pitch them.

If it comes across and I've actually had a host say the pitch was really raw, raw I was like, yeah, because my client's awesome, like I truly believe that and feel that Otherwise I wouldn't work with them and you know the same goes for the host Is I want to listen to the show before I pitch to you and I want this to really help you and your audience and that's why I also work with my clients on. You know, you can't just say thank you by putting it up in an Instagram story for 24 hours that does nothing. You've reached 60 people and that's it. And then you wonder what you're. Why am I ROI not?

:: 14:15

why is it not?

:: 14:16

bigger, because you need to put forth more effort and say thank you in the proper way, with repurposing the interview, putting a blog post, putting up, you know, an Instagram post in your feed and all of the other things. So it's all of these relationships that are really how the two relate and why I love doing what I do. I work with people who have messages that I feel they educate, motivate and inspire, and that's really what changes lives, ultimately makes the world a better place, and then I feel like I'm doing something for my kids.

:: 14:47

So who would be an ideal person to work with you for the booking aspect?

:: 14:54

I work with a variety of clients, from entrepreneurs, business owners, authors, nonprofits. It's really people who want to share as authentically and as freely as they possibly can. Some might have their messaging down, others might not, and that's okay because it's something that we work on. I have a lot of clients who think that they can only speak on one topic and then, as we onboard and I get more out of them, I let them realize that no, you have a whole other journey that you can unpack. You have all of this other knowledge and people wanna hear the stories of others. We find it interesting.

Just as you asked me about my aviation career, people wanna know what have you done because it resonates, it's interesting and we just love to hear these kinds of stories. So anyone who has a story to share, whether it's something that can motivate and inspire someone who's going through the same thing because chances are there is someone else on this planet who needs to hear what you've been through and to know that they can get through this moment in life because you've done it. So maybe you've inspired them to be able to move forward. For the business owner who is just launching their business and wondering why am I doing this, how am I supposed to do this? And you can share your knowledge of how you did it and how you built it and how you've succeeded. Now you've just inspired them. Do you have these tools and tips that you can share on how you did it? Now you get this free knowledge and education. That's the beauty of the podcast it's free to listen to.

So there's all of these different things. I work with a lot of authors who are not just selling their books but we don't get to know them as people. You know, we see celebrities, and I've been talking about this a lot lately because I ran into an author that at first glance I don't know who she is. Oh, I had just downloaded her book the night before, but because she's not on TV all the time then I wouldn't know who she was because I didn't recognize her. And here she was standing right in front of me.

So to be able to share these people with the world and to allow others to get to know them on a personal level is really. It's so wonderful and so nice. It's rewarding.

:: 17:03

What do you think shifted for you when you had this realization that you wanted to do more with your life and you start, you know? Obviously you were in a position where listening to a podcast from a business life coach is something that you felt you needed to do. You were also sharing socially as well, which I think is interesting, because some people will take this journey and just kind of sequester themselves and go in a cave for two or three years and then come out with, like, the new me or the 2.0 or the 3.0, whatever you know, depending how many you know reworks you've had of your life. But I'm curious what is it in you? What's that drive that? Was it something that shifted over time or is it just like an aha moment for you?

:: 17:42

I've always been kind of an open book. I don't mind sharing my opinion, and I don't know if there's a naivety to it, because even in the corporate world I would stand up in the boardroom and say you know, I don't agree with you guys doing it this way. I think that you might want to do it this way and I did have one manager who was like you need to sit down and stop. And then a VP was like no, this is good.

We need this kind of candidness and openness, because otherwise everyone else is a yes person and we don't need yes people. I think also that when my kids were born, something else clicked where I became that the quote unquote mama bear of you know I'm going to fight for whatever I need to for my kids and to make sure that things are just good for them.

So it was a combination of all of that and I've never been afraid of really failure per se, because I feel like if you try and it doesn't work out, oh well. I feel like if you put your best foot forward and you try as hard as you can, then you won't fail, even if it doesn't work out.

And you know, I tried a little social media management because I thought, well, if I'm here preaching what I'm trying to learn, then I can engage too. And I didn't like it didn't work for me. I tried some event planning because when I was in aviation I did a lot of networking events. I was on regional boards and again I went oh, this is kind of just, you're taking my nights and my weekends, so I'm not with my kids, and it's really.

It wasn't fulfilling me, whereas this really fulfills me. It lights me up. I want to get out of bed, I want to work. I have no problem, you know, if it's five in the morning or if it's 10 at night, although I have some boundaries now but I enjoy what I do. So I think that just sharing all of that and really letting people know that you can find something, that you do, that will not only financially keep you stable and secure, but you can enjoy what you do, you truly can find something that you love doing, and if you start small and just keep at it, then it can continue growing and you just have to put in the work.

:: 19:47

Definitely want to circle back to probably some questions that are going to percolate around the booking process and then your relationship with clients and, obviously, this idea of helping people get on more virtual stages. I've been a big proponent of helping people find their voice and that's why we have our agency. We've been producing shows since 2015. And I just feel like everyone has a story to tell. It's just a matter of getting the story out there in a way that resonates with their audience, and I think people are really hesitant in the beginning because maybe they don't like the sound of their voice. So they feel like and you've probably come across this but they don't feel like they have a story. But everyone does. You just have to ask the right questions, be naturally curious, have a genuine interest in the person, and some people take a bit more coax in than others, but I think, at the end of the day, we've all got valuable stories to share.

:: 20:34

Absolutely, I completely agree, and it's just getting that first one under your belt and going oh I kind of like this it's really just a conversation with one other human being and I say treat it like you're having coffee and don't worry about the thousands of people who will eavesdrop on it later. That's just the added bonus and benefit later.

:: 20:52

So what was the thought process for starting your show Like what did you have in mind? Did you know that you were going to be interviewing people, or are you going to use it to leverage the work you were doing as booking clients?

:: 21:03

I did not treat it as a business arm at all in the beginning. Now I do incorporate some of the business aspects of what I do and teaching others. But I really went into it with the premise of your past and your present don't define your future you do.

And that was based on my previous career. What I was currently trying out, it didn't matter because ultimately, I had the power to do whatever I wanted to do for my future. And so everyone who comes on the show has had a pivot, has had a change, and there's been nobody. I have yet to find someone come on the show and say, yeah, I've been in the same career for 50 years and never looked back.

:: 21:43

And that was it.

:: 21:43

There was no fork in the road, and I'm satisfied Nobody has ever said that, whether that's in life or on the podcast.

So everyone has a story and a pivot, as you said, and that's really what the show is about. And then to motivate you to take the reins of your life, and if you don't like the job you're in, then look at what else you can do. It doesn't mean you have to quit, but find that hobby. That's on the side. If you're an author, I interview a lot of authors and we talk about well, what are your rituals? How did you come to become an author? How did you get published? None of them are the same story either. Everything is different, and so it's great to know, too, that there is no one way that is the right way. It's a bunch of different ways and it's really what works for you.

:: 22:26

How many episodes are you up to now?

:: 22:28

I just submitted number 217.

:: 22:32

217? That's a lot, and you release episodes weekly.

:: 22:35

Yes, every Tuesday.

:: 22:36

And when did you launch a show?

:: 22:38

2019,. I believe it was.

:: 22:40

How have you grown as a host? That's a lot of repetitions, a lot of reps under your belt, and so I'm curious if you can see back how you started the show, those first couple of episodes, and how you've matured over the years.

:: 22:55

I've cringed. The first interview I did, I had all of my questions written out, despite it being someone that I had known for years. And I regret that, because now I go in with I've googled you, I've stalked you, I've read your book, but I don't have any questions up front. I just want to let the conversation flow and go where it is, and if a question pops into my mind, then that's what's going to come out. For solo episodes, I used to script them. I would write them out and my editor would say he goes, I couldn't tell them, read them, like I couldn't. But now I'm like well, what's?

the point, Because it took so much time. So now I will write myself a small outline, depending on what it is, to make sure I get the key points in. But it's like half a page versus I was writing out. Oh, it was like a book in itself. So now it's much more, it's a comfort for sure of just being myself showing up and being okay with whatever comes out.

:: 23:52

Do you think about this idea that we keep referred to what we mentioned about people having stories, and do you think about that when you're going into these interviews and looking for opportunities to share some insights into your guests that you know maybe they would otherwise not have mentioned had like, had not the questions been asked correctly of them?

:: 24:14

Yeah, I think especially. I have some clients that I will have on as guests of my own show and that's kind of I don't want to say it's the test, but there is a part of it where I will ask them a question that I knew the answer to but they had not brought it up, and then, once we wrap up, I go. Do you remember how? You told me?

:: 24:33

this story.

:: 24:34

You didn't mention it until I mentioned it, and a host is not going to mention it because they don't know you. The way I know you, so write it on a post it to remember, to share this story.

You know, even if it's one word, I definitely think that's a big part of it. Oftentimes I'll think of a question that I'm like I just want to know the answer to, because I'm selfish and I'm inquisitive and I just want to know. And so what's the story behind that? With authors, I want to know what parts of the book are actually nonfiction in your fiction book.

:: 25:02

Yeah, that's a good question.

:: 25:03

Because there are always parts that are nonfiction. I'm like just tell me, because now I know what's the truth. Give me the goods, that kind of a thing, and I think in my book I share it, that if you forget something it's okay to write it on a post it and stick it on your monitor because nobody's going to see it.

If you need that little nudge, put a word up so that you remember to bring whatever story it is to the forefront and eventually it becomes your next sense or you know whatever it is, that it becomes common for you, common practice to share that story. But if you need that reminder to begin with, then simply do it, it's not a problem.

:: 25:40

Do you find it challenging when you have to switch hats and be the guest versus being the host?

:: 25:46

Not so much. I'm pretty conversational, no matter what so? I mean, I enjoy that I don't have to think of the questions.

:: 25:53

That's on me, yeah.

:: 25:55

Yeah, I can just show up and be myself and share whatever stories come to my mind, but I think that, no matter what it is, as long as you do your research beforehand whether you're the host or the guest, and then you have something to talk about. So I think there's. You know we all get anxious a little bit talking to strangers or whatever, but if you've gone and stalked them and googled them and know something about the person, you're going to talk to, then there's no need to be afraid of talking to someone else.

It's simply another human being, and that's really, I think, something that we all, we need to kind of get over, because it's like being in the elevator. You know everybody puts their head down and we don't want to talk to each other. Yet there's that one person who's like morning. Oh well, good morning to you too. You know, was it that hard? No, just say hi, it does.

:: 26:42

A lot of it depends on where you're raised though, because, as you say that, I cringe a little myself because I grew up in New York, so I grew up in Yonkers and I lived in New York City, so I've lived in Brooklyn, so various different places in New York. But there's a shell that you create around yourself when you're a New Yorker and, like I've said this before, we could be on a subway car with like 100 people, but no one's making eye contact right, and everyone's just kind of doing their own thing Like on the sidewalk. If you bump to someone, it's like a big deal and you don't go out of your way to like greet or smile people. So I'm in Minnesota now and my girlfriend, when I first got here, she's like you don't say hi to anybody. She's like what you know? Do you say like thank you? I mean, I wasn't like super rude, but I just had this like kind of like New Yorker, like let's get things done Like, and I think over the years I've just mellowed out a little bit and I've just like oh hey, how's your day going Like?

And there's a thing, there's a Minnesota goodbye thing, where it takes them like literally minutes just to say bye. They'll say bye, but then they'll say like, let's still keep talking and then they'll say bye again and they'll still be there and then before you know, it's like five minutes have gone by and this is like this is the longest goodbye ever. So it's been a cultural shift, I think, for me just to kind of have that openness. I think it's more natural for me, like when I'm like podcasting for, but I think I want to make sure that translates to real life as well. So I do notice my podcast hat coming on when I'm in real life and I'm like meeting people and I started asking them questions and I'm like, oh, this is sort of turning into a podcast interview here, but it's a nice skill set, yeah.

:: 28:10

It's so funny that yeah, it's hilarious that you mentioned this, because I was just in New York last week and over the weekend and before a book signing, I peeked into a Starbucks and there was this man in the corner charging his phone and when, by the time I walked out, I can tell you that he was 67. He worked for the city. He's going to retire in two years. He served in Vietnam. He had his first child at 16. They got married. They got divorced at 20 years later. I can tell you his entire life story, because I walked into the Starbucks and was like Good morning and we just chatted it up. And it's funny because as I came home, there was a documentary on Grace Kelly and it said, well, she loved going to New York because that's where nobody knows who you are.

And you can walk down the street and no one will recognize you, Whereas I found myself looking at him like who do we?

:: 28:58

know? Do we know anybody?

:: 28:59

who's here, but it's so true about the Midwest. I lived in Chicago for a while too, and they are the nicest, most outgoing people on the face of the planet. In the Midwest I thought Texans were friendly because I moved from LA, where I didn't know the people who lived across the hall from me to Texas, where people were nice, and then going to Chicago and I was like, oh, this is a different planet, these people are nice on the sidewalk. It's so different, yes.

:: 29:25

It's so interesting, I imagine, for international travelers to understand like that change in culture really exists across cities, like because I lived in LA prior to here. So let's not talk about the weather shift, because that was like that took some adjusting as well, but four years in LA it's sort of like the New York vibe as well. Everyone there is a little bit more superficial and you know, a lot of spiritual community. There is also a little touchy feely and stuff. So there's a mix of different cultures there. But it is interesting to experience cities and I had been to Austin as well, so there's some friendliness as there. My brother lives in New Orleans and that is almost like another country.

It's very friendly and lots of culturally diverse food and music. That's really amazing, so, but I think it's this idea of getting out and I don't know if you've experienced this because you're remote, you obviously get to talk to people from all over you know the country and all over the world, but does that come across to in like different personalities and based on where people are from?

:: 30:26

A little bit, yeah. Yeah, I think that podcast it does make it different, because it's that one on one versus you're just kind of meeting randomly. But yeah, you can definitely tell where people are from based on how they kind of communicate with you and show up. Yes, for sure.

:: 30:43

So do you feel like, where are you with the podcast? Is it something that you just like enjoy doing, you'll keep on doing, or has it evolved? I think you said also, you started to mention your business there as well. So I'm curious is there, do you have an audience? Have you created a community around it? How has it grown since then?

:: 31:01

There's definitely an audience in a community, but I don't have like a Facebook group board or anything like that. I'm still surprised when people say, oh, I listened to this episode or they respond to a newsletter. It still surprises me that there's actually someone listening to what I'm saying every week. I say all the time that I do it because I'm selfish. I love getting to ask certain people to come on as guests and to get to know them.

And when you say I've got a podcast and I'd like you to be a guest on it, and they're like sure, and I'm like let me pinch myself because I think you're pretty big, so that's awesome that I get to now talk to you. You get free advice. The whole premise for me having a book was because I had a book coach on and she said what do you think you're going to write on? And I went I don't know where to start. Like what should your first book be on? She goes what you know and what you're known for.

So write on that. And now I have a book, but that's because I invited.

So it's a very selfish thing that I love and I'm like I'm going to continue it, even if there's nobody listening. I'm going to keep going because I get to talk to really cool people and to learn about them and really create friendships. At the end of it, you've talked for an hour now with this person, you've gotten to know their story, you want to know more, and so you keep in contact. So it's great for business, it's great for personal friendships. So, yeah, I'll keep going.

:: 32:22

Yeah, I think about that a lot because I'm closing in on ten years with this show, so I'd launched it in 2014 and 333, I think, was the number of episodes.

And so it's just having this platform to just sometimes I'll bring on friends from the podcasting space that I've had and talked to in years, that I see at podcasting conferences. I'm just like let's just come on the show because you know if we're at a conference we're only going to get five minutes to just have a quick catch up. Now we're going to full hour, to your point right. Just like that ability to go deep and just and again talk to people who you respect and admire in the industry or in the business. And then just this idea of having that platform I like to call podcast virtual stages, and it's this idea of like, who are you going to invite to your virtual stage and you get to see it from both sides because you help put people on these virtual stages as well. So what are some of the sort of the pitfalls or the things not to do in order to be a good guest on a show?

:: 33:16

It starts with the pitch and, as you mentioned, say the name, really get personal in your pitch. I say listen to the episodes before you go on. And I say also don't be lazy and listen to the last episode, because that's the one that they just released. It like, dig a little deeper, find something that was going to resonate with you and relate to it. Share of yourself of why did this resonate with you, why did you connect so much with this episode, in particular, to have topics that are not generic. Don't say that I can teach you how to be an entrepreneur. A lot of people can.

What is it that makes you special? What's your secret sauce, your method, what's your story? And be specific on what that is. Follow up. But be polite in your follow up and don't be weird. I've gotten follow ups that literally just said Bing and that's it made the book because I'm like what? Is besides the sound that AOL used to make Right, I'm like Bing you have a message.

That is not a follow up. So just be normal, be polite and persistent, but polite persistence is what's going to get you in. Sometimes it's the second or third follow up, because podcast hosts have lives and we have jobs. This is not our all day. Every day we're pining away.

We need to that guest pitch. We're just not. It's the simple truth. So, to fall, make sure you follow up and then, when you show up as a guest, show up on time, show up ready to go, be professional and give of yourself as freely as possible, give your knowledge, give your education, give your story and just be yourself. And then, when it's all done, say thank you properly with posts and blog posts and tagging and sharing, and do it more than 24 hours. Put it on your media press page so that way it lives there forever in a blog post. Just do these things and go the extra mile to truly say thank you. And I compare it all to if you're going to someone's house for a dinner party. A podcast host show is their home and they've invited you into that home.

They've extended the trust that their audience has in them now to you, and so you need to be gracious about it. You need to engage, just as you would if you're sitting at the dinner table. You need to say thank you. Don't come empty handed. Do you have a freebie and a call to action? Just as you would bring a bottle of wine or flowers or a candle. It's simply that common sense stuff that I think unfortunately lacks quite a bit.

If you were going to someone's house, then treat the podcast show as someone's home and you've been invited in and that's a big deal, so it needs to be treated in that same manner.

:: 35:59

I always say that when I coach clients they're going to be on other shows, that your goal should be the best guest that hosts ever had on their show, and that's a big thing to aim for.

But if you had that intention that you're going to be the best guest, what would you do differently to your point?

Do the research, find out, maybe, what one of their most popular episodes was and why was it so popular and what is their audience looking for? Because essentially, a host is bringing you on to share you with their audience, but it's his or her audience that should be the focus. So you have to put the host hat on and say how do I make this really like a win-win, not just for the host but for his or her audience as well? And I think, thinking about those things before you go into it, I think it just shows because you can tell when someone is prepared and they're coming with the energy, and I've had some really good guests that just connected with me that I had never heard of before. And then to your point we're still in contact and I can think of a previous guest, ben Albert, who just sent me like four new names of other people that he knows in his space and it starts to start to like amplify, like that, which I think is amazing when that happens.

:: 37:07

Yeah, and to be, present. I think that's the other big thing. Do not answer your emails, and it's noticeable, even if there's no video.

I have heard the clicky-clack of a keyboard and I'm like, please, just like, shut it down. It's not even an hour of your time. Nobody, none of us, are saving lives, unless it is a heart surgeon or brain surgeon that we are interviewing. Nothing needs to be responded to. Or a kid is sick, like you know, put your phone in airplane mode and just show up and be present, and I think that's really the key. And whether it is at someone's dinner party and you're there and you're conversing, or are you on your phone.

And I compare it to like the date of he's just not that into you. You don't want to be the he who's like.

:: 37:50

I would rather be anywhere else than here at this dinner table, talking to you Show him that you want to be here.

:: 37:57

I want to talk to you. I'm taking the time, you're taking the time, so let's have a conversation, not, yeah, I just want my name to show up on your show and in your social media, but I don't have time for this.

:: 38:08

I'm so much more. I've loved having video from day one. So back in 2014, I pieced together Skype with call recorder and I was able to have the video. At that time we weren't recording the video but I knew I said I want to see the body language, I want to see how they're responding, cause at that point people were just doing audio, like you couldn't hear, you couldn't see the person, you would just hear them, right, and I was like, uh, I mean like I need to, like I don't know, like there's some visual cues and it's helped me to be more comfortable with silence because I'll ask a challenging question or a question that requires some thought sometimes and you can see them. Like you know, the eyes roll up, they're like thinking, like what kind of answer should I give this person? And if you've developed a rapport, then they'll give you like a genuine response.

But you do need to be comfortable with silence sometimes because some people need time to think through and give a thought or response. But, to your point, it is more prevalent now, with these apps like squad cast and Riverside is encastered that people have more video and what's interesting is when you see the clips that people create, sometimes you can see both the host and the guest, and there's been a couple where, like, my eyes have like moved to like a second screen and I see myself and I cringe. I'm like, oh, like you can really see now, like it's there's proof, positive, like are you literally like paying attention? Are you focused on your guest, which I think is interesting?

:: 39:19

I use Riverside and so you know they have every interview you've done in the one screen and every shot of me. My mouth is wide open. I am like, so excited to be here. This is. It makes me cringe because I've taken a screenshot and shared because everyone I'm like, yeah, like you're here, I'm so happy. It's awful, but to your point. So I started out without video and then I added it in, and I remember one guest in particular that she just wasn't into it and the body language was like okay, yeah.

And then I remembered a part of her book that talked about her dad. And I was like, well, I'm going to bring this up, and I did, and her entire demeanor changed. She got relaxed and it was visually. I went oh, that was it, this is where I hit her. Now she's comfortable and it was a physical change and then you could tell the interview just went so much better after that.

:: 40:14

Very smart, so video.

:: 40:15

I totally agree. I love it. I don't release my video, but I love being able to now have that face to face connection. So yeah, despite COVID having us all on zoom for way too much.

:: 40:27

What's preventing you from releasing the video?

:: 40:30

Probably just more editing. There's a good descript Well descriptors.

:: 40:34

they just purchase squad guests, but obviously they. You can upload any video there. But what's fascinating about that tool is that you upload the video and then they'll automatically transcribe it. And what happens is, if you delete the text, it'll edit the video. So you're just deleting, you're just working as like a word processor, like a word editor, and you're just deleting words and then it's making the cuts in the video.

:: 40:56

Oh, that's genius, so that's pretty cool.

:: 40:59

So yeah, it's making it very approachable for a lot of people who like wouldn't have gone. And I didn't touch video editing for a while and we've been using it within our agency because it's just some of that features. I still like the timeline kind of coming from audio. I use Hindenburg for editing and I love the timeline, but for people that are just getting started it's really like a game changer to just be able to just delete a word and then that's it, it's gone from the video.

:: 41:25

That's genius. This is great. So none of this existed back in the day.

:: 41:28

It keeps changing. The AI stuff is pretty well too, and that's just keeps getting crazy. Yeah, and so a couple of questions as we wrap up. What is something you've changed your mind about recently?

:: 41:40

Oh, that's a good question that I don't have to get it all done now. That would be especially with my book launch and feeling like I have to get everything done in the marketing and I'm like, well, no, the book's going to be there tomorrow still, so it's okay to really take more time and to be okay with it. That would be something I changed my mind about recently.

:: 42:01

Is that something that you have to fight in terms of like your internal behavior, or like a core belief that you need to get stuff done? Is that something that's had the change over time? Yeah, I get the feeling the checklist has to be done.

:: 42:15

Like here's today's list and everything needs to be checked off. And now I'm like, okay, it's okay if we move it to tomorrow, to really to stop the eye from twitching, that it's okay, there's another day, like nothing needs to be so urgent, so urgently done. There's time to do it. And if today is not going to be the day, then that's okay. Tomorrow is another day.

:: 42:37

Was that a gradual sense of that awareness, of this idea of slowing down or of taking time and everything not having to get done to me?

:: 42:45

I'm going to say no, like it started actually. About a year and a half ago I had a pulmonary embolism and ended up in the hospital for five days and if I had not gone to the hospital they said I would have died because my doctor had said well, we can't see you, we'll see you on Friday. This was a Monday. I went in on Tuesday, so it was after that.

I was like things have to cut back and I don't have to be the one person doing all the things for all the people, the volunteer, for everything. I can slow down, I need to slow down and other people can really pick up other things, and that was really more on the volunteer side, not necessarily the work side yeah.

:: 43:24

And did those closest to you notice.

:: 43:26

Yes, because I was like I'm done and I would give plenty of notice, because I'm not one who likes to just say I quit tomorrow. I was like here's my resignation on this board in six months, so you have plenty of time to replace me. But yeah, people noticed and people didn't like it. That was really the funny part of well, but can't you just do this. So I got a lot of. Can't you just do this part?

And you know you had the pulmonary embolism because you do too much. You did it to yourself, but, by the way, do you think you could leave this meeting next week?

:: 43:55

Oh my yeah, once you do all the things nobody likes, you're not doing them.

Yeah, there's a couple of facets to that, because that internally is, if it's I don't know if it's type A personality, or left brain, whatever. However people are categorized, I think I have slight HD as well, or neurodivergent. I'm definitely neurodivergent, like. So you know, there's all these things happening and I don't know which one can end. You know, keeping me up, like, because sometimes I wake up at or I have trouble sleeping, or I get up early because I think about all the things that I have to do today and I'm just like I got to get this list on or find a way to manage it.

But I've found that meditation has been breathwork.

Meditations I've been coming across recently have been helpful just to kind of sort of do like a, you know, to, to, to lessen the importance of it and, to your point, that line about like we're not saving lives, that's.

That was literally the line my one of my first managers like and I'm grateful that he did, because I would have like a full list of stuff and he would be like, okay, look at the other day, we're not saving lives here, you know. So let's just put things into perspective and I've always remembered that as well as to keep in mind, especially as an entrepreneur, you're responsible for everything. You know I've worked 20 years in corporate and there's so many levels of management and people accounting. There's accounting departments and marketing departments and finance departments and sales departments and I'm all of them. So so, you know, as an entrepreneur, so it's a lot, but I think there is some self care that's, I think, not spoken about as much. When it comes to being an entrepreneur, that's really should be the first thing that's considered and letting people know what they're in for.

:: 45:27

Yeah, I completely agree, and it's funny that you mentioned the meditation, because I thought just yesterday I was like, you know, I probably should be like pausing and doing some 10 minute meditation, because that will probably get rid of the eye twitch and we will be fine.

:: 45:39

Yeah, when the body starts reacting in a way like muscle twitch, eye twitch, that's the sign where it's becoming external. Yeah, maybe cut back on the coffee a little bit. But also, like you know, I'd studied Buddhism for a little bit and I remember there was a saying that said if you find that you don't have the time to meditate, that's probably a sign that you need to meditate.

:: 45:57

I like that. Yeah, all right, I'll go make 10 minutes today 10 minutes.

:: 46:02

That's all. It takes 10 minutes a day. There's something about and making it a priority, and it almost like this I did. There's a book I keep referencing and talking about the body keeps the score, and I've heard excerpts from it. So I feel like I know the content, some of the content but I do need to actually read it. But this is the idea of like talking to your body and treating your body as if it's a separate entity that you have to, like you're responsible for and that you care for. You know, it's not like I think people forget you know, and like that we have to talk to our body and just check in. It's like are you okay? Like do you need anything? And we don't do that. And I'm trying to hydrate more, drinking like having my water here handy, especially as a podcast. You suck for an hour. Your mouth gets dry. I can tell what a lip smack looks like as a way file. You know my car.

:: 46:45

That's a lip.

:: 46:46

That person's got dry mouth right there, so it's interesting, but I think it's just a helpful reminder that, at the end of the day, like I think, our health, mental health and our actual health is the most important thing.

:: 46:59

Yeah, I definitely agree, especially since I've been down that path of oh my body now tells me that it's time to slow down, so absolutely.

:: 47:07

What would you say is the most misunderstood thing about you?

:: 47:11

That's a tough one.

:: 47:12

Now you saw my eyes just go up.

:: 47:13

Now I'm thinking about the video part of like oh, I'd like to think that I'm approachable, whether it's online or in person, and I don't know if doing as many things and being as vocal about it or as opinionated I always speak like this is what I believe in. This is wrong. This is right. If people might find me unapproachable because of that, because I share my opinions. That would really be, I think, the only thing, because I'm pretty much like this is who it is and this is who I am so if you misunderstand it.

that's kind of on you, because I've told you how it is yeah.

:: 47:53

And I think there's something refreshing about just being yourself like the same way, always, all times. I've been saying a lot recently this idea of and I talk when we talk to clients about they're just getting started being a podcast host. I'm like it may sound weird, but you should think about repelling people as quickly as you attract them. Because it's this idea of just it may not be a fit, and I'm on a spiritual journey, so I've been actively talking about it on my socials and because I'm just like if that's considered too woo for you, then it's probably something like we're not a fit or something like that. So, even the type of people that I work with I talk about people like expanding their voice. I even updated my LinkedIn to say I'm the cosmic conduit for a weak in souls, ready to transmit their message to a global audience, so like you put it out there, linkedin of all places.

You know, you kind of know, and but it's funny because it, like it generates conversations with people that are like pulled in. They're like, oh man, I saw that and I was like I got to learn more about you. I want to learn more, so, to your point, it's just easier to just be yourself all the time. Then you don't have to worry about like how was I to this person, how was I to this person? And I think we're seeing that more and more, which is refreshing.

:: 49:02

I think I always say this my least favorite word in the world is authentic, because I'm like well, why do you have to say you're authentic, Just be who you are, and then you're literally authentic. So don't say be authentic or I am authentic. I hate that and I think the biggest compliments I ever got was someone saying oh, like, meeting you in real life is just like on the podcast, like you are exactly who you are, whether it's a.

Zoom, you're in person, you're on the show, and to me that's been the biggest compliment, because that means that I am showing up as I am and you're going to get the same person, no matter if we meet on the streets of New York or we're here on a show or I'm sending you an email. It's all the same person, and I think that's what we should all strive to be is who we are.

:: 49:45

And to bring it completely full circle, you'll be the same person when you're on the tarmac boarding your private jet.

:: 49:53

And I will know to be kind to those who are working on the tarmac as well.

:: 49:59

Yeah, but it's interesting because you had that experience right.

You had the experience of seeing people who.

You saw them on the screen and then you met the real person and I would imagine that somehow stuck with you, this idea of like be genuine and just be kind to people all the time, and it seems like you've carried that thread through. And now, as you have these conversations with your guests, it seems like that thread is being pulled through as you're coaching and guiding that your clients, you know, bringing them on shows, prepping them. It feels, you know, you've got that maternal instinct that kicked in when you had your kids, and so it's beautiful how you've been able to kind of pull these all together. And now, in the work that you're doing, I think it's just fascinating to see where your journey is taking you, and kudos to you for being just a great spokesperson for podcasting as well, because we need more of them and just for people to see the benefit of what podcasting can do, when done correctly, you know, and not done in a way that's, like you know, spamming people. But I just appreciate you reaching out and I've really enjoyed our conversation today.

:: 50:55

Thank you, I've had a wonderful time.

:: 50:57

I'm like we can talk forever, yeah yeah, yeah, that's how it should feel, right.

:: 51:01

Yes, yes.

:: 51:03

So share a little bit about what you're working on, where people can get the book. We didn't get into the book a little bit, but you know if you want to mention that a little bit as well. And then a little bit about your booking services.

:: 51:12

Yeah, how to get on podcasts is out now. It came out last week. It's available wherever you buy books. Amazon has it on sale right now, so that's a great place and it really takes you step by step on everything that you need to know to get on podcasts. It's everything, but it's not just how to, it's fun and it's still me as well. And then my agency is the MLG Collective and we book clients to be on podcasts authors, entrepreneurs, everyone in between and you get everything that is in the book, but you don't have to do the work of the book.

:: 51:45

Yeah, yeah. It's always interesting because we see that from an agency perspective, like I'll show people what to do and then they're like oh okay, clearly how to do this, and then probably better if we just hired you to do it.

:: 51:55

Yes, yes, I just had somebody who before this, she was like I read your book and I got into the introduction. I was like I'm going to hire her.

:: 52:03

That's amazing. I mean, that's the best thing. How long did the book process take from start to finish?

:: 52:08

I started in December of 2021, and then, here we are, january 2024. The longest process is really pitching to the publishers and the publishing process and publishing. It was actually very quick. I was with McGraw Hill and they moved it very fast, faster than what a normal traditional publisher would. But then I was part of the business division which just shut down, so that could be why it was also spent, okay.

:: 52:35

Well, we'll make sure we have all the links in the show notes. I think you provided those as well, so we'll have the mlgcollectivecom and anything else you want to link to in show notes. So if you're listening or watching this, you can just look at your podcast app and connect with Michelle, and we'll make sure to get a copy of the book as well, because I'd be interested to read that too. So thanks again for the conversation. I really enjoyed it and I think what you're doing for podcasting is really awesome.

:: 52:57

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it, Harry.

:: 53:00

All right, I'll talk soon.

:: 53:01

Okay.